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Talk:Sean Finnegan
Can't quite undertand the latest addition. What is a "training evolution" and is the jumbled list in the next statement anything akin to "he supported Kirk, Spock and enlisted trainees who were posing as cadets" or is there another meaning as to who was posing as who? -- Captain MKB 05:23, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :The list isn't jumbled; it's just apparently unclear. Kirk and Spock were enlisted trainees posing as cadets. I'll try to improve the phrasing. :A training evolution might also be called a training phase (which is more encompassing than a training session). I know the term from the Navy (and the latter term from dealings with the Army), so I'm not sure what a non-military equivalent would be. A Google search suggests that 'training evolution' is commonly used by firefighters and is sometimes used in business, but I don't know that that helps - you found the phrase confusing, after all. --Columbia clipper 14:49, September 19, 2010 (UTC) ::I just have to ask, was it referred to as a "training evolution" in the source material? I don't know if it is right for you to supply naval terms to this without having a source to back it up. ::The list was jumbled, because the sentence was a run-on. When you keep running together phrases with commas, you lose clarity of what you were trying to say. You have a bunch of text before, Kirk and Spock, posing as something, and then continued with another action description. It would be good composition if you limited the number of actions per statement -- don't construct a big long confusing description of "something happening" - comma - "list parsed with 'and'" - comma - "action (posing as something)" - comma - "another action involving another subject/predicate". It makes what you are trying to write unintelligible. ::Another reason this is confusing -- since when were Kirk and Spock enlisted trainees? -- Captain MKB 15:07, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :::Corrected: In late August 2250, he supervised a group of cadets during training aboard the USS Enterprise, then undergoing a refit. While aboard, Finnegan supported Kirk and Spock when they pointed out inconsistencies in a second-year cadet's story. ::: Re: training. No need to try and supply specific terminology. They were undergoing training, and that makes the satement clear as day. ::: Re: posing. "posing as" supplies a third verb-action to the sentence and makes it jumbled and unintelligible. If you really think that "posing as" is important, I'd say start a new sentence. This simplified sentence says the same thing but doesn't attempt to completely describe Kirk and Spock's actions. The statement's two major actions is about "Finnegan supporting", the latter explanation is about "Kirk and Spock questioning". There's no good grammatical way to introduce a third verb combination to this sentence. Because Kirk and Spock already have an action assigned to them, and the action was done towards a third target, you lose cohesion of who was doing what action towards what recipients. -- Captain MKB 15:16, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :It is important to mention that they were posing as cadets. Finnegan was aware of their deception, but chose to support them anyway. I've tried a phrasing that removes the information about them being enlisted trainees, which isn't relevant. --Columbia clipper 15:50, September 19, 2010 (UTC) ::Your recent edit restoring that additional clause ignored the problems that were caused in the sentence. Please read above if you want to see the reasoning. All I did in re-editing this was to split the sentences into two more understandable statements, not sure why you couldn't get that. ::Also, you ignored my question. Most other sources have Kirk and Spock sponsored to the academy as student officers. Why would they be enlisted trainees in this work -- is it an inconsistency of the source material? -- Captain MKB 16:19, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :::Sorry, I didn't notice your first comment. The reason my edit ignored your comment about a new sentence is that I simply didn't see it. I also missed your second comment about the list being jumbled. I meant that the list itself wasn't jumbled (which is what I thought you meant); the larger sentence you may have a case for. :::The novel doesn't include the phrase 'training evolution'. I used it unthinkingly, because that's what such phases are called in my mind. So nearly as I can tell, 'training evolution' is actually the most commonly used term for a block of training like this. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be used sufficiently frequently to be clear to everyone. I agree that a less specific term is probably better here. :::Kirk and Spock were railroaded into enlisting in Starfleet in "Academy: Collision Course". After they helped unravel a conspiracy, they were released from Starfleet service (they were originally railroaded into Starfleet because a senior Federation official thought they might be able to penetrate the conspiracy). At that point, both accepted offers of appointment to the Academy. The nature of their appointments may conflict with other stories (but could probably be made to fit, with creative thinking), but, to my knowledge, their brief enlisted service doesn't. --Columbia clipper 17:01, September 19, 2010 (UTC) ::That makes it a lot clearer, thank you for that. I think now that everything's explained we have a solid addition to the article, thank you. -- Captain MKB 17:09, September 19, 2010 (UTC)